unashamed fan. i would love to interview you in the studio. but it's been a real pleasure. i hope everyone signs up to the nelson mandela project on monday and does their bit for the community to repay him and also you i think as well. because you've certainly earned all our respect. thank you very much. >> thank you, piers. nice talking to you. and i hope we do get in studio one day. >> i look forward to that. that was morgan free man a great man. that's all for us tonight. "anderson cooper 360" starts right now. piers, thanks very much. good evening, everyone. we begin tonight keeping them honest with the husband of presidential candidate michele bachmann speaking out about the counselling business they coown. breaking his silence after a month, mounting tensions and allegations that the clinic engages in so-called reparative therapy. they offer two christian counselling services including reparative therapy based on the theory gay people can be turned into heterosexuals through a combination of prayer and willpower. nearly all mainstream medical

and psychological associations say there's no evidence that it works and there's plenty of evidence in fact it can be hurtful and harmful. for days now congresswoman bachmann and her husband refused to answer questions about it. but today in minneapolis star tribune he defends the clinicses saying he and others do not deny they have tried to help homosexuals become heteroswals but it's not a specialty service and only at the client as request. will i address it? certainly. we'll talk about it. adding is it a remedy form that i typically would use? it is at the client's distropical depression. five years ago he flat out denied his counselling service engaged in reparative statement. the most he would say about it back then, "if someone is interested in talking to us about their homosexuality we're open to talking about that. if someone comes in a homosexual

and they want to stay homosexual i don't have a problem with that". he says "reparative therapy is not a focus at bachmann and associates". but according to an undercover video by truth wins out, in the lobby of one of bachmann's clinics they offer this book written by janet boynes who claims to be a former lesbian and cured herself of same sex attractions. martin bachmann recommends the book saying "she speaks to the heart of the matter and gives practical insights of truth to set people free". here's one of several hidden camera conversations a man posing as a client for truth wins out had with one of the clinic counselors. >> what would you suggest to me like a treatment plan type of thin thing? >> you can definitely pray. >> you can actually leave homosexuality and completely become heterosexual? >> oh, yeah, definitely i

believe all about that. and if it happens, yeah. it really has. >> well, counselor at bachmann and associates suggesting he pray the gay way, suggesting it's worked before. we interviewed a man named andrew ramirez also who says he encountered similar suggestions back in 2004 as a client at the clinic. he spoke recently about it with cnn's jim acosta. >> it was therapy that would help me change from being homosexual to straight. >> that's how he described it? >> yes. >> he basically said if you do this, what? you wouldn't be gay anymore? >> if i did this and worked his therapy program, god could perform a miracle and i could no longer be gay. >> ramirez says he was assigned a therapy program consisting of prayer of reading bible passages. he also says he was told he would be men toward by an ex-lesbian minister. and if none of that worked, ramirez says, the counselor had another idea. >> he suggested to you what?

>> not acting out on my same-sex attractions and living a life of celibacy. >> that was an alternative to being gay? >> right. >> that was in 2004. now, in 2006 mr. bachmann denied his practice specialized in such therapy. today he says it's only done at the client's request. congresswoman bachmann continues to remain silent on the issues of the clinics which she coowns but she's had plenty to say about her dislike of homosexuality. >> this is an earthquake issue. this will change our state forever. because the immediate consequence, if gay marriage goes through, is that k-12 little children will be forced to learn that homosexuality is normal, natural, and perhaps they should try it. >> if you're involved in the gay and lesbian lifestyle, it's bondage. it is personal bondage, personal despair and personal enslavement. this is not funny. it's a very sad life. it's part of satan, i think, to say that this is gay. it's anything but gay. it's profoundly sad to recognize

that almost all, if not all, individuals who have gone into the lifestyle have been abused at one time in their life, either by a male or by a female". >> she didn't provide any evidence of that. michele bachmann over the years. marcus bachmann has also weighed in on a christian radio show and that's caused some controversy. his words stirred up a storm because they suggested he was likening gay teenagers to bar barance. but he now tells the star tribune his remarks have been taken out of context. in fact he says that recording was actually doctored. keeping them honest, the recording shows no technical signs of editing and a host of the radio program agrees. here's the clip as it ran. >> there's that curiosity. but again, we -- like you know, it is as if we have to understand barbarians need to be educated. they need to be disciplined. and just because someone feels it or thinks it doesn't mean that we're supposed to go down that road.

>> now, mr. bachmann is saying now he was comparing kids to bar barance. the radio host agrees. here's a fuller version of the clip. and you can decide for yourself. >> welcome back to point of view. dr. marcus bachmann is my guest. the time is going way too fast. i have so many questions for you, dr. bachmann. this one since you also pay attention to the culture wars, this has been swirling around lately because of this particular letter that came down from the american college of pediatricians cautioning schools to stop promoting homosexual identity to children. and yesterday the "wall street journal" came out with an article. what do you say when your teenager says she's gay? what do you say to christian parents who come up with this? >> well, i think you clearly say what is the understanding of god's word on homosexuality. and i think that this is no mystery that a child or preadolescent particularly

adolescent will question and wonder about sexuality. that's noting in under the sun since the beginning of time. >> yeah. >> but i don't think we should take that -- because we wonder or we think or we question, does that take us down the road of homosexuality? >> could you add the word experiment to that? >> well, certainly. there's that curiosity. but again, we, we -- like you know, it is as if we have to understand barbarians need to be educated. they need to be disciplined. and just because someone feels it or thinks it doesn't mean that we're supposed to go down that road. >> you can decide for yourself what mr. bachmann meant by that statement. our jim acosta did the initial story of the reporting. he joins us now. jim, marcus bachman says in the interview today with the minneapolis star tribune that converting gay patients is not a special interest of his clinic, it would only be attempted at the client's request.

on that truth wins out video it does seem like the guy who made the undercover tape said to the counselor me was interested in changing his orientation which got the conversation going. the family of the young man you spoke to who went in town 4, what did he say about that? >> that young man we interviewed for our story earlier this week said he and his mother turned to bachmann and associates for counselling after being referred to the clinic by a friend. ramirez says they were told bachmann was a place to turn for teenagers who wanted to change from gay to straight. and you mention that photo taken by gay rights activist who went into the bachmann clinic undercover. it is a picture of that book you said written by a self-described ex lesbian named janet boynes. in her book she claims she was able to use her faith to change her sexual orientation to straight. and above that book is an endorsement from marcus bachmann. not to mention that interview you just played from the radio, the host asked dr. bachmann what parents should do if their teenagers believe they're gay. >> and jim, bachmann also didn't

deny this kind of therapy is going on at his clinic but it's not in any way accepted therapy by any mainstream medical organization or psychological organization. >> that's right, aernd aernd. a therapy aimed at changing a person's sexual orientation is frowned upon by mental health experts. bachmann says he's not seeking clients who want this kind of therapy but the guidelines from the american psychological association are pretty clear as to what counselors should do when a patient with this issue comes for help. here's a statement from that group that's pretty clear. it says "there is insufficient evidence to support the use of psychological interventions to change sexual orientation". and the group says that that kind of therapy, reparative therapy, can do harm to patients. >> and michele bachmann still kind of remaining silent on this whole thing, right? >> that's right. the campaign is not saying much. a spokesperson sent out a statement to me this evening saying "mr. bachmann has spoken. the bachmann for president campaign is focused on the issues that people are concerned about, jobs, the economy" and no

more on the subject for now, anderson. i tried to ask michele bachmann about this at a press conference on wednesday and there was no response. >> all right. jim acost tax appreciate the reporting. there's a political dimension to the story. congresswoman bachmann is riding high in the polls especially in iowa where christian conservatives frequently dominate republican caucuses. i talked about the impact the story not have with ari fleischer. we spoke earlier. >> paul, do you believe mr. bachmann's explanation that this isn't the focus of his clinic though he doesn't deny that he and his counselors would try reparative therapy and have tried it? do you buy that -- his explanation? because in the investigation that was done by that group with the hidden camera, i mean, in his lobby they are selling a book by somebody who claims to be ex-gay talking about getting

out of being gay. >> well, his position seems to be, i will practice a crack pot theory if people ask me to practice a crack pot theory. what if somebody comes in and says, will you try santoria or voodoo or astrolly? would he adopt them? that's what this is. the notion -- first of all they call it reparative like your sexual identity is like a muffler or something. take it into the shop and repair it. it's a crack pot theory and bigotry. having said that, i do think democrats in the left have to be careful here. he's not the candidate. i never like going after people's spouses. i really don't. she owns a piece of the clinic. it's legitimate. i'm more interested in that piece of it, asks mrsmrs. bachmann, the congresswoman, the candidate about this. because i don't think that michelle obama or cindy mccain for that matter or theresa heinz kerry, there's a long history of spouses being mistreated in these campaigns. i don't want marcus bachmann to be mistreated but i want michele

bachmann to tell us does she believe it this crack pot, bigoted theory. >> a couple of days ago we did this story mainly because michele bachmann was refusing to answer questions about it when asked point blank and seemingly mr. bachmann's statements -- she's a coe owner and his statements didn't seem to be squaring up with what his former patients were telling us. >> anderson, if somebody came up to me and said they were gay and they wanted to have advice on how not to be gay, i would say why on earth would you ask for that? you should be proud of who you are. end of story. but if somebody goes to a christian counselling clinic and says, i need help. i don't want to be gay. i want to be something else. that really is between the person who goes to that clinic, a christian clinic, and whoever the practitioners are on the other end. in this case a christian advisor. so i think you do have to be careful here. it's almost as if somebody of a faith goes to their priest and asks for advice about their own practices. for those of us who aren't

belong to that it's a little hard to weigh in. and i think when it comes to spouses especially it's not the candidate. and they don't -- should not get treated by the same rules that apply to candidates. >> but mrs. bachmann should answer the question. do you believe in this crack pot, bigoted theory that there's somehow something to be repaired if you're gay? i can't even say it without laughing because it's such a crack pot theory. congresswoman bachmann apparently participates in the profits of this clinic. in fact the clinic apparently gets state and federal assistance, which is kind of interesting of an anti-government conservative. she should have to answer whether she supports that kind of bigotry. >> well, first of all, it's medicaid. so when paul makes that case i guess what he's saying is only democrats should be able to receive medicaid funds. no republicans. which is nonsense. secondly, i think when it comes to these very sensitive and social issues, we have to be careful before we put ourselves in other people's shoes. i don't think it's out of the

norm for somebody to say, i want to change who i am. and if they do, i told you what my answer would be. i would say, you don't need to. why should you? but if somebody wanted, to and that's what the case here was, who among us has the right to say to them, if that's what you really want, you're not eligible to have it from anybody in any way if that's what you want. i don't think any of us have metaphysical certainty about these issues. what we should have is respect. and i think you have to leave it on the side. leave it alone especially when there are so many other issues dealing with the jobs and the deficit. and that's what this election is about. >> then you're no longer practicing therapy. you're no longer practicing psychological counselling. you may be practicing a religion or some sort of pledge dis, you may be practicing something but you should not be getting medicaid funding to practice healthcare, mental health care in this case, if what you're doing is pursuing -- >> it's a christian counselling -- it's a christian counselling program.

and paul, what you'd be saying is no con selling program of any religious nature should be able to receive federal funds. >> they shouldn't -- >> if that's the case you want to make, that's a big different case to make. this is a christian facility. and they take medicaid patients. not necessarily for this procedure or treatment or whatever you want to call is. >> there's no evidence they're using medicaid payments for reparative therapy. >> she should be asked about this theory. she's a candidate for president. one out of ten americans is gay. she should be asked if she wants to lead a country where at least 10% of us are gay or lesbian, what does she believe in this crack pot, bigoted theory that somehow there's something to be repaired in our brothers and sisters and sons and daughters who happen to be born gay. >> we'll have more with paul and ari after the break. the debt showdown president weighing in, republicans speaking out. polling the president used in support of his policies. frankly the president's numbers simply don't add up. we'll show you that.

we're on facebook follow me on twitter @ anderson cooper. later thousands of protestors in cairo's liberation square. this isn't video from the egyptian uprising this winter. these are new protests. we'll tell you why they're happening now. an everyday moment can turn romantic anytime. and when it does, men with erectile dysfunction can be more confident in their ability to be ready with cialis for daily use. cialis for daily use is a clinically proven low-dose tablet you take every day so you can be ready anytime the moment's right.

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duelling press conferences today each side demanding the other side get serious. >> i'm glad congressional leaders don't want to default. but i think the american people expect we actually try to solve this problem, we get our fiscal house in order. >> time and again republicans have offered serious proposals to cut spending and address these issues. and i think it's time for the democrats to get serious as well. >> president obama repeated his call for a so-called grand bargain on revenue and spending. speaker boehner claiming a tax increase could not make it through the house. >> right now this economy is ailing. and we don't believe, nor do i think the american people believe, that raising taxes is the answer. >> the american people understand that tax hikes destroy jobs. >> i think what the american people appreciate is that you

don't reinvigorate the economy by raising taxes. >> 80% of the american people do not want to see taxes raised. >> the president's answer? let's raise taxes on job creators. mr. president, the american people don't want that. >> the american people don't want us to raise taxes. >> well, last night we showed you numbers from gallup and others demonstrator that's just not true. most americans women in fact support certain tax increases to lower the debt. only 20% in a recent gallup poll favors spending cuts only. president obama mentioned that poll today. but keeping him honest, his numbers didn't quite add up. here's what he said. listen. >> you have 80% of the american people who support a balanced approach. 80% of the american people is up support an approach that includes revenues and includes cuts. so the notion that somehow the american people aren't sold is not the problem. >> in fact a large majority does support a mix but not 80% as the president said.

here's the poll again. it does show only 20% support for spending sus only. add up the number for some kinds of mix and cuts in taxes and you get 69%, not the 80% the president said. he also alluded to the same poll when he said that 65% of republicans support that grand bargain. he reportedly struck with speaker boehner before the speaker backed away from it. in fact the poll doesn't ask specifically about the deal, only about a mix of taxes and spending cuts. i talked about all the budget maneuvering again today with paul begala and ari fleischer. >> both sides trying to get in front of this. at this point does it look like the white house is making a dent in this battle? >> certainly from the polling, and sorry to be so political but i'm a political hack. that's why i'm on. the president, there's a quinnipiac poll that came out today the president has a 14 point advantage. he's shown the most political courage. he has put medicare cuts on the table. 78% of americans oppose cuts in medicare.

but he's put that on the table. he's apparently put social security on the table. the republicans won't even put low-hanging fruit like tax breaks for oil companies and for corporate jets on the table. so i think the american people are being fair. they're saying, look, if we have to take these cuts in programs we believe in we should will asks wealthy americans to pay a little bit more, too. that's where the president is. i think he's definitely on the right side of. this. >> ari, in terms of how both sides have been playing this, how do you assess it? >> well, number one, if president obama has put medicare and social security on the table, he's covered them with a table cloth. because nobody can see what he's talking about. you notice at his news conference today he ducked a question about whether he'd be willing to raise the retirement age. so far it's all fluff and rhetoric from the president and no specifics. in terms of how it's playing, the one big polling piece that we got this week was the president is now down by eight points in a generic poll to republican presidential nominee whoever it would be. that's a huge gap for the president and a step in the wrong direction. so this frankly is the ultimate

pocks on all your houses issue. the poll is very frustrated with everybody in washington who cannot come to an agreement on this. that's what ultimately is going to drive the end game here. an agreement has to be reached. it's just not american for us not to be able to pay our bills. that's what we expect as families and what we should expect the government to do. my bet is at the end they're going to pass some type of medium-term, 500 billion or so, six-month fix all tied to spending cuts. and barack obama has no choice but to sign that. >> paul, you agree with that, some sort of medium fix? >> i suppose that may be where it's going. i tend to be more pessimistic about this. you never go broke betting that republicans will be irresponsible and reckless. one democratic senator e-mailed me a couple of days ago with a quote from lincoln's historic speech at cooper union in 1860 where he said he didn't like politicians whose strategy was in lynn could be's word, rule or ruin. either they'll rule the country or they'll ruin the country. that seems to be the republican

strategy. either let us rule entirely, no compromise, or we will ruin the country by pushing us off this cliff on default, which is really -- i mean for the party of lincoln to be practicing the politics of rule or ruin is really pretty tragic. >> anderson, what you have to remember, this is what the american people spoke out for in 2010. this is what elected such a tsunami of republicans to office. people were fed up with deficits, fed up with debt, fed up with spending, fed up with healthcare reform. they wanted america to move in a different direction from barack obama. that's what's now being tested. >> we got to leave it there. ari, thanks very much. paul begala as well. have a good weekend former fugitive reputed mobster and alleged killer james whitey bulger. hear why his name and reputation on the street made even the toughest tough guys tremble ahead tonight, haunting videotapes made by the couple who kidnapped jaycee dugard and held her captive for 18 years. they show them stalking children on playgrounds. both of them at the same time they even videotaped parole

officers who visited their home and failed over and over again to find jaycee dugard. every parent should see these tapes. be ride back. enters the bloodstream faster, and rushes relief to the site of pain. it's clinically proven to relieve pain twice as fast. new bayer advanced aspirin. but i did. they said i couldn't fight above my weight class. but i did. they said i couldn't get elected to congress. but i did. ♪ sometimes when we touch ha ha! millions of hits! [ male announcer ] flick, stack, and move between active apps seamlessly. only on the new hp touchpad with webos.

deadly violence in syria today as anti-government demonstrators clash with soldiers after prayers. at least one civilian was killed along with one soldier. we're not able to independently verify this report. video shows demonstrations in cities across the country. syrian state tv once again blamed the violence on what it called armed groups and said soldiers were protecting people from those groups. the situation in egypt has received much less attention. former president jose any my both -- hose any mubarek was swept from

power. thousands stormed into the square taking back the revolution because they want faster changes in egyptian society including deep economic and social reforms. they want speedy trials for mubarek and members of his former regime and severe punishment for police officers who killed protestors during the uprightings in january and february. this week the government tried to apiece the protesters by firing nearly 600 police officials. but are there limits to the tolerance of the ruling council? we've seen that in the last few weeks it's allowing the protest but said it won't permit disturbance to the public order. i spoke with a senior at stanford university's stugz and with an egyptian protestor. >> what do the protesters tahrir square want a this point? >> we're in an ongoing struggle. that's been something that's been very clear since mubarek left power. we've seen multiple attempts by the protestors to get what they

want, and we've seen multiple attempts by the army, specifically, to push them back. and the protestors want to build their country. and they are fed up with -- they're fed up with the speed of change. they're fed up with the army which has tortured people, which has put people on military trial, which has threatened the press, which has threatened freedoms. and what we've seen here starting last week on the 8th of july is the first absolutely clear consensus that the way things seem to be going, the way that army seems to be leading things is something that they don't accept. and so what we've got going on right now is a very clear message being sent to the army, things have to change. and i would say what characterizes this sit in as opposed to where we were at the beginning is this is actually a much more different sit. in at the begins it was easier. at the beginning it was we need to break something from the past. this is very much about making very clear what the future is we want to build.

>> you're saying it's more difficult now. but i mean, back then people were being killed in the streets by promubarek forces. you still say this is more difficult just because it's more complex? what you're trying to azmooef. >> what i mean to say is politically it's a lot more complicated. you can unify a large number of people over the fact that you want to get rid of a dictator. unifying them over what and how you want to build your country is much more difficult. because building is much more difficult than breaking with the past. but that's not to say, of course -- of course the difficulty of what we had in the first sit in was the violence which was incredibly clear. but since then we've had -- as i said we've had violence, we've had torture. we've had people killed at the hands of the army. we've been threatened. so now it's about learning how to -- finding out how to build the country that we want.

>> professor you've been optomistic about arab spring. are you disappointed by the pace of progress since mubarek was toppled. >> absolutely not. in fact as we look at what has been happening in egypt it's remarkable. we have to remember that even though this egyptian revolt that you witnessed first hand was largely peaceful, 850 egyptians were killed at the hands of the security forces. not the army. that's a very important distinction. so the families of those 850 people want justice. and it's in the nature of revolutions that they always want to go back to their moment and their place of innocence. and the place and the moment of innocence were these magical 18 days in liberation square where the egyptians claimed the history and drove pharoah out of power. and now there's an account, if you will, between the army which backed the people and didn't kill them as the civilian army

is killing its own people, and the population which wants speedier change, faster change. one protestor said he wanted freedom, social justice, and bread. now, these are very, very big demands. and i think that's what we're really looking at in egypt today. >> kala, the elections have now been pushed back in egypt. they were supposed to be in september, now they've been pushed back to october-november. they were already had been scheduled earlier than many people had wanted other than the moslem brotherhood, other groups who wanted to be able to establish themselves. do you think it's a good thing that elections have been pushed back? >> i mean, the elections will come when they will come. and i think when we're talking about the pace of change, i think the pace of change will be -- it will be what it will be. i mean, at the end of the day, one month, two months, doesn't really make that big a difference. the issue is really the lack of transparency that we've had by

the military who are essentially ruling the country. the fact that we don't know when we have our elections, there are all sorts of elements about how those elections are held that have not been made clear to us. i think those are the issues that are extremely worrying about these upcoming elections. >> professor what about the role of the moslem brotherhood? there were some fractures in the organization. the youth part of it i think broke off, created their own organization. are they the biggest power now besides the military in egypt? >> well, i think that of course they're big power. if you watch what happened with the moslem brotherhood, they stayed out of this protest of friday. they basically said, we won't participate. we want to give the government time. so they're trying to sound reasonable, trying to sound responsible. but the problem for the protestors right now is that there is a prime minister in place who was brought to power by the protesters, and now the protesters want him to do all kinds of things very, very quickly, very rapidly.

it's not easy getting rid of the heritage of author tearianism. >> khalid, i remember talking to you in those heady days when you were sleeping in the square for days at a time. are you still that opt miss stick? are you still that excited? >> absolutely. i mean, what happened here at the beginning of this revolution has changed how people view their future, has changed how people view their country. and what we're seeing and what you're seeing behind me is the fact that they will not rest until they achieve what they want to achieve. >> appreciate you coming out both of you. >> thank you. >> still ahead tonight, crime and punishment, haunting videotapes just released by prosecutors revealing new details about the monsters charged with and convicted of holding jaycee dugard captive for 1 years. also casey anthony just hours away from freedom. she'll be released from a florida jail sunday. she won her case, so why are her attorneys now appealing the verdict? we'll explain that. c moves. talk to someone who owns an adjustable version of

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out of that sliding door. >> on what side of me? >> on your left. >> the videos are unsteady and sometimes out of focus, but the intent is clear. >> see them? >> yes. do you think anybody can see me? >> no. >> when you make it look like you're pointing at me you need to move more in front of me. >> obtained by prosecutors, the videos show convicted sex offender phillip ga retoe and his wife nancy apparently on the prowl in park lots and playgrounds surrounded by children. >> got me real good? >> yes. i can see you really good. >> their team strategy caught on camera gives an erie glimpse on how the duo worked together to observe children and ultimately kidnap 11-year-old jaycee dugard as she walked to the bus stop near her lake tahoe home on june 10, 1991. in an interview with abc's diane sawyer, dugard recounts gary redoe's giddiness over her capture. >> did they say anything? did you hear anything? >> no, not at first.

after we were driving for awhile i heard the driver say, i can't believe we got away with it. and he started laughing. i think i blacked out again or something. it was like -- the most horrible moment of your life. times ten. >> that horrible moment continued for the next 18 years. held captive in the garrido's backyard, dugard was repeatedly raped and gave birth to two children. on the while he was on federal and state parole. >> why is this door locked? >> this door right here? >> that's where we sleep. >> want to turn the light on? >> sure. >> in another video which was taped by nancy garrido, a state parole officer searches the home. >> what does a parole agent do for his parolee? >> if you stay in this front room and i don't have to place you in restraints, because right now i'm searching the house. >> the search of the home appears to be brief and the officer never goes into the backyard where he could have discovered dugard some 30 feet

away. >> i don't believe it, either. >> i don't understand. i'm doing everything i'm supposed to do. >> i know it. >> parole officers visited ga retoe 60 times at his home. 60 times. not once did they notice what was happening in the backyard. in her interview with abc, dugard recounts the one time she came face-to-face with a parole officer but was too afraid to tell him the truth. >> i actually talked to one of the agents. and the agent proceeded to give phillip his urine test and left. this made me feel like he didn't really care. >> luckily, jaycee dugard was finally discovered in august 2009, 18 years after being abducted. the garridos convicted of kidnapping and rape are now in prison for life. from the videos, it's clear law officials failed to do their job. that's the main reason they say the videos were released by the district attorney's office with dugard's consent in the "hopes of improving the supervision and detection of sexual predators".

>> so creepy. earlier i talked about the tapes and what can we learn from them with dr. drew pinsky and sunny hostin, a former federal prosecutor. >> dr. drew, i watched these tapes multiple times today. they are so disturbing. and the degree to which this guy's wife was aiding and abetting him and was sort of -- was part of this. i mean, it boggles the mind. >> it boggles the mind now knowing what we know about this guy and the depravity to which he has sunk. the fact is, the reason this guy chose this woman is because of her profound dependency needs. and he on some level, psychologically, indue itively or otherwise, knew he could get her to cooperate with really anything he wanted to do. his games of mind control are intense, and he found a willing victim here in this woman who needed to be loved by him more than anything else in her life. >> this is -- sunny, this is a

registered sex offender videotaping kids in a playground. it's a parent's worst nightmare. is there anything one can do to protect kids at a playground like this? >> no. in a public playground certainly people can take pictures. and there have been states that have tried to pass laws to prevent that and that has -- those efforts have failed. but i will say. this i think the problem here was in the federal supervision and the state supervision. he was a registered sex offender. and if people do their jobs and parole agents do their jobs, probation agents do their jobs, when they go and they search people's homes, these sex offenders homes, they find evidence like this. they find the videotapes. they find the child pornography. they find the photographs. and so i think in this case the system really, really failed. and that's really the tragedy here. >> and i mean for parents watching tonight, dr. drew, who might be worried some pedophile could be lurking around their kids' playground, i guess you'd look for somebody with a video camera? >> well, no, it's not as simple

as that. it's even frankly -- i don't want to make people paranoid, but assume -- assume the worst. i mean, if these stories lately have not taught us anything, it is that depravity exists in our world, and sometimes it comes out of nowhere. there's not as though they wear a sign or a sandwich board that lets you know. there's nothing absolutely characteristic about them physically or their behavior. that you need to have eyes on kids at all times. and we just live in a world where these things exist and they're much more common than we'd like to admit. we've been through a period of maybe 20 or 30 years where people debated how pervasive these problems are. now it's apparent. now it's obvious. it exists and we have to be vigilant. >> also the amount of thought that went into it, buying this video camera. he's talking to his wife about the video camera and sort of instructing her in how to use it. his whole plan of sitting there singing while she's secretly videotaping what's happening around him. it's just -- i don't know. i just find this videotape so,

so disturbing. >> anderson, it's spooky and it's disgusting. and again, you've got to remember something. this is just not the average perpetrator. this is not somebody who -- one message i have to people that have these sorts of impulses is, please get help before you hurt yourself or somebody else. there are things that can be done. but this is more than that. this is depravity. this is a depraved person. >> the fact that there is video where you actually see the parole officer in the house and with the knowledge of what was happening in the very backyard, it's just -- it's stunning to actually see it. >> it really is stung. and what i thought was really fascinating is that it was nancy garrido that was taking the video. and she was very combative with the parole agent. he got out of there very quickly. and he never went into the backyard. so this is i think going to be a tool for prosecutors and for investigators and parole agents and probation officers to really look at and figure out, how

these predators work, all the possibilities that they need to look into when supervising these sexual predators. >> the sex offenders i've interviewed are really the most ma nip la tiff people i've ever met in terms of -- some of them were grooming children and families to try to molest them, some of them were people who had grabbed kids. >> it's not a passing fancy. it's not a hobby. it is a profound, intense drive and attractions. and in those situations where you can treat, it takes a lot of work and really on a daily basis. in those situations where again as i've said now several times where it's actually becomes deprafd, it is our legal system that must step in and protect our children. >> dr. drew appreciate it, sunny hostin as well. >> thank you guys. coming up still ahead in the hour, casey anthony spending her final nights in jail. and just word tonight that j-lo and marc anthony say their marriage is over. plus the ridiculist tonight. we'll be right back. ♪

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still ahead on tonight's ridiculist, a repeat performance. romance haters who can't see the love between a 16-year-old girl and her actor husband who's older than her hearse. first tom foreman is back with a 360 update casey anthony will be released from jail on sunday. and today her attorneys filed a notice of appeal for her four convictions for lying to police. anthony is also facing two civil lawsuits, one filed by a woman with the same name as the one she made up for her make believe nan nirks and the other from one of the groups that helped in the search that's called equisearch. >> shame on you! shame on you! >> rupert murdoch was heckled outside the home of a british teenager today, millie douler. murdoch met with her family to apologize. he was -- she was murdered prompted the paper to shut down later on. also today, rebecca brooks stepped down as ceo of news international, the corporate

parent of news in the world and les hinton the ceo ceo of dow jones also resign today. he ran news international from 1997 to 2005. a shocking split from hollywood tonight. jennifer lopez and mark anthony tell people magazine they've decided to end their marriage. the couple married in 2004, are the parents of 3-year-old twins, max and emmy. and actress me la kunis says despite reports that she was too busy, she is going to go to the marine corps ball with sergeant scott moore. >> i am attending. i'm going november 18th. i will be there. [ cheers and applause ] >> come on. there's no need to applaud. it's nothing great. you guys, i accepted his invitation and i'm staying true to my word. i got permission to be released from work for the day. so i'm flying in and flying out. >> i am attending. that's what she says. sergeant moore is stationed over in afghanistan and he asked kunis to attend the ball in a youtube video.

interesting stuff. >> a big fan of her. i met her. she's great. that's cool that she's going. >> time now for the ridiculist. tonight we have to add all the romance haters out there who continue to doubt the love between these two folks, doug hutchison and courtney today den. perhaps you've seen him in "the green mile" or "lost" or "the x file" and his bride 16-year-old courtney. you might have seen her relaxing on the beach wearing the american flag perhaps. or perhaps sick singing in a boat with a dog that match her bikini. ♪ when i go shopping i say popping when i'm a walking they'll be talking ♪ >> yeah. she's 16. kids today. so yes, there is a 35 year age difference. no, courtney hasn't graduated from high school yet. and yes, many have criticized their union. but the happy couple were on good morning america today explaining their relationship

putting all skepticism to rest. it is a classic love story really, 53-year-old boy meets 16-year-old girl online setting into motion a four month online court ship. it sounds like the beginning of every episode of to catch a predator but that's where you're wrong, people. this online romance was different. this one was beautiful and it was unique. >> is it really beautiful and unique way to get to know someone. because we didn't have the distraction of -- >> physicality. >> the physicality. i know what you're thinking. where were this girl's parents, right? well, they were all for it. doug, being an upstanding guy, made sure of that. here's what he told courtney's parents. >> if you are uncomfortable with it, i will respect you. and courtney will respect you. and we will step back. >> mm-hmm. did you see that? no, courtney did not get grounded and he father four years younger than doug did not file a restraining order. her dad even walked her down the

aisle. let's hear it for the cool parents. courtney didn't have to miss any chemistry test or anything when she jetted off to vegas -- vegas, romantic-as it turns out courtney is home schooled via an online christian academy. she's a very religious girl. >> i was a virgin when i married him. >> she was saving herself for me. >> i knew if i kept that i would really be blessed with a beautiful gift. and god did. he blessed me with my soul mate. >> and in the presence of god and with her virginity that she somehow managed to hold onto for 16 whole years? courtney married her 51-year-old soul mate. courtney's talked about morality before. perhaps you remember her on her youtube channel? >> i have never done pornography. i never will. about myself, i am a christian girl. i hold my faith very tightly. and i'm a virgin. and i plan to stay that way until i am married. >> and now she's married. she was married five months after she posted that video. way to make a plan and stick to it. i bet she learned that in 4-h.

okay. sure. some people are calling her husband a cradle robber, pervert, dirty old man. whatever. those are just words. we note truth. >> people are welcome to their opinions. that's what the world is about. if they need to feel this way, that's theirs to hold. not ours. >> did you see that? can we roll that again? and can someone please explain to me what is going on with courtney in this clip? >> people are welcome to their opinions. that's what the world is about. if they need to feel this way, that's theirs to hold. >> are we frozen on this video? i know we're transfixed, but what was she doing with her face? it was like -- i almost think

she just got roofied or something or maybe had some side effect from botox or something. please stop. take that out. if i didn't already know better from courtney herself. >> my breasts are real. everything about me is real. my hair is real. my teeth are real. my eyelashes are real. my breasts are totally real. >> it's all real. did she mention her breasts? i think she mentioned her breasts twice. it's as real as the reality show that courtney and doug are considering. oh, please. or to put it another way, real head to toe. >> it's real head to toe. >> courtney's plastic surgeon was god. >> god, thank you for take time out of your busy schedule to tend to courtney's plastic surgery and home schooling and send her a ping dog and a soul mate before she even turned 17. romance haters, i'm talking to you, i beeach you once again get onboard, get romantic and get real. we'll be right back. they said i couldn't fight above my weight class.

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good evening, everyone. we begin tonight keeping them honest with the husband of presidential candidate michele bachmann speaking out about the counselling business they co-own. breaking his silence after months, mounting attention and allegations that clinic engages in so-called reparative therapy. the bachmanns own two clinics offering christian-based marriage counselling and including reparative therapy based on the theory that gay people can be turned into

heterosexual through a combination of prayer and willpower. nearly all mainstream medical and psychological associations say there's no evidence that it works and there's plenty of evidence in fact that it can be hurtful and harmful. for days now, both congresswoman bachmann and her husband have refused to answer questions about it. in today's issue of the bachmann's hometown paper, the minneapolis star tribune, mr. bachmann defends the clinics. the paper reporting he did not deny he and other counselors have attempted to help gay patients become heterosexual, but he said it is not a special interest of the business and only occurred at client's requests. will i address it he was quoted as saying he told the paper, certainly we'll talk about it. adding "is ate remedy form that i typically would use? it is at the client's discretion". in a news interview five years ago, mr. bachmann flat out denied his practice specialized in reparative therapy. back then according to the paper responding to such allegations he told city pages kwgs kwgs that's a false statement". he would say "if someone is interested in talking tonight

about their homosexuality we're opening to talking about that. if someone comes in a homosexual and wants to stay a homosexual i don't have a problem of that. he says reparative therapy is not a focus at bachmann and association. but according to an undercover video by truth wins out, in the lobby of the bachmann's clinics they of this book written by a woman named janet boynes who says to have could herself of her sexual orientation. in a placard behind it it says "she speaks to the heart of the matter and gives practical insights of truth to set people free". here's one of several hidden camera video in which a man had a conversation with one of the counselors. >> what would you suggest to me like a treatment plan type of thing? >> definitely pray. >> you can actually leave

homosexuality and become heterosexual? >> oh, yeah, definitely. i believe all about that. and if has happened. it really has. >> well, a counselor at bachmann and associates suggesting he pray the gay way, suggesting it's worked before. we interviewed a man named andrew ramirez also who says he encountered similar suggestions back in 2004 as a client at the clinic. he spoke recently about is with cnn's jim acosta. >> it was therapy that would help me change from homosexual to straight. >> that's how he described it? >> yes. >> he basically said if you do this what? you wouldn't be gay anymore? >> if i did this and worked his therapy program, god could perform a miracle and i could no longer be gay. >> ramirez said he was asigned a therapy program consisting of prayer and reading bible passages. he also says he was told he would be men toward by an ex-lesbian minister. if none of that worked, ramirez says, the counselor had another idea. >> he suggested to you what?

>> not acting out on my same-sex attractions and living a life of celibacy. >> that was an alternative to being gay? >> right. >> that was in 2004. in 2006 mr. bachmann denied his practice specialized in such therapy. today he says it's only done at the client's request. congresswoman bachmann continues to remain silent on the issue of the clinics which she coe owns. over the years she's had plenty to say about her opposition to and dislike of homosexuality. >> this is an earthquake issue. this will change our state forever. because the immediate consequence if gay marriage goes through is that k-12 little children will be forced to learn that homosexuality is normal and natural and that perhaps they should try it. >> if you're involved in the gay and lesbian lifestyle, it's bondage. it is personal bondage, personal despair and personal enslavement. this is not funny. it's a very sad life. it's part of satan, i think, to

say that this is gay. it's anything but gay. it's profoundly sad to recognize that almost all, if not all, individuals who have gone into the lifestyle have been abused at one time in their life, either by a male or by a female". >> she didn't provide any evidence of that. michele bachmann over the years. marcus bachmann has also weighed in on a christian radio show. that's caused some controversy. his words stirred up a storm because they suggested he was likening gay teenages to barbarians. but he now tells the star tribune his remarks have been taken out of context. in fact he says the recording was actually doctored. the recording shows no technical signs of editing and a host of the radio program agrees. here's the clip as it ran. >> there's that curiosity. but again, we -- like -- it is as if we have to understand barbarians need to be educated. they need to be disciplined. and just because someone feels it or thinks it doesn't mean

we're supposed to go down that road. >> now, mr. bachmann is saying now he was comparing kids to barbarians. the radio host agrees. here's a fuller version of the clip. and you can decide for yourself. >> welcome back to point of view. dr. marcus bachmann is my guest, and the time is going way too fast. i have so many questions for you, dr. bachmann. and this one, since you also pay attention to the culture wars, this has been swirling around lately because of this particular letter that came down from the american college of pediatricians cautioning schools to stop promoting homosexual identity to children. and yesterday the "wall street journal" came out with an article. what do you say when your teenager says she's gay? what do you say to christian parents who come up with this? >> well, i think you clearly say what is the understanding of god's word on homosexuality. and i think that this is no mystery that a child or

preadolescent, particularly adolescent, will question and wonder about sexuality. that's nothing new under the sun since the beginning of time. >> yeah. >> but i don't think we should take that -- because we wonder or we think or we question, does that take us down the road of homosexuality? >> could you add the word experiment to that? >> well, certainly. there's that curiosity. but again, -- it is as if we he to understand, barbarians need to be educated. they need to be disciplined. and just because someone feels it or thinks it doesn't mean that we're supposed to go down that road. >> you can decide for yourself what mr. bachmann meant by that statement. jim acosta did the initial reporting on the story. he joins us now. jim marcus bachmann said today that converting gay patients is not a special interest of his

clinic, it would only be attempted at the client's request. on that truth wins out video it does seem like the guy who made the undercover tape said to the counselor he was interested in changing his orientation which got the conversation going. the family of the young man who you spoke to who went there in 2004, what did he say about that? >> well, anderson, that young man we interviewed for our story earlier this week, andrew ramirez, said he and his mother turned to bachmann and associates for counselling after being referred to the clinic by a friend. ramirez says they were told bachmann was a place to turn for teenagers who wanted to change from gay to straight. and you mentioned that photo taken by gay rights activist who went into the bachmann clinic undercover. it is a picture of that book you said written by a self-described ex-lesbian named janet boynes. in her book she claims she was able to use her faith to change her sexual orientation to straight. and above that book is an endorsement from marcus bachmann. not to mention that interview you just played from the radio, the host asked dr. bachmann what parents should do if their

teenagers believe they're gay. >> and jim, bachmann also didn't deny that this kind of therapy is going on in his clinic, but it's not in any way accepted therapy by any mainstream medical organization or psychological organization. >> that's right. anderson, a therapy aimed at changing a person's sexual orientation is frowned upon by mental health experts. bachmann says he's not seeking clients who want this kind of therapy, but the guidelines from the american psychological association are pretty clear as to what counselors should do when a patient with this issue comes for help. here's a statement from that group. it's pretty clear. it says "there is insufficient evidence to support the use of psychological interventions to change sexual orientation" and the group anderson said that that kind of therapy, reparative therapy can do harm to patients. >> michele bachmann is still kind of remaining silent on this whole thing, right? >> the campaign is not saying much. a spokesperson sent out a statement to me this evening saying "mr. bachmann has spoken. the bachmann for president campaign is focused on the

issues that people are concerned about, jobs, the economy". and no more on the subject for now, aer anderson. i tried to ask michelle bachman on this on wednesday and there was no response. >> congresswoman bachmann is riding high in the polls especially in iowa where christian conservatives frequently dominate republican caucuses. i talked about the impact the story may have or probably won't have there nation-wide with democratic strategist paul begala and ari fleischer. we spoke earlier. >> paul, let me start with you. do you believe the bachmann -- mr. bachmann's explanation that this isn't the focus of his clinic though he doesn't deny that he and his counselors would try reparative therapy and have tried it? do you buy that -- his explanation? because in the investigation that was done by that group with the hidden camera, i mean, in his lobby they are selling a

book by somebody who claims to be ex-gay talking about getting out of being gay. >> well, his position seems to be, i will practice a crack pot theory if people ask me to practice a crack pot theory. what if somebody comes in and says, will you try santeria or voodoo or astrology or any other number of crack put theories? would he adopt them. the notion first of all they call it reparative like your sexual identity is like a muffler or something. you got to take it in the shop and repair it. it's a crack pot theory and bigotry. having said that, i do think democrats in the left have to be careful here. because he's not the candidate. i never like going after people's spouses. i really don't. she owns a piece of the clinic. it's legitimate. i'm more interested in that piece of it asking mrs. bachmann, the congresswoman, the candidate about this. because i don't think that michelle obama or cindy mccain or theresa heinz kerry, there's a long history lately of spouses being mistreated in these campaigns. i don't want marcus bachmann to

be mistreated but i want michele bachmann to tell us does she believe it this crack pot, bigoted theory? >> ari, on this program we did this a couple days ago. this is a story mainly because michele bachmann was refusing to answer questions about it when asked point blank and because seemly mr. bachmann's statements -- and she's a co-owner of this clinic and mr. bachmann's statements didn't seem to be squaring up with what his former patients were telling us. >> well, anderson, if somebody came up to me and said they were gay and they wanted to have advice on how not to be gay i would say why on earth would you ask that? you should be proud of who you are, end of story. but if somebody goes to a christian counselling clinic and says, i need help. i don't want to be gay. i want to be something else. that really is between the person who goes to that clinic, a christian clinic, and whoever the practitioners are on the other end. in this case a christian advisor. so i think you do have to be careful here. it's almost as if somebody of a faith goes to their priest and asks for advice about their own

practices. for those of us who aren't belong to that, it's a little hard to weigh in. and i think when it comes to spouses especially, it's not the candidate. and they don't should not get treated by the same rules that apply to candidates. >> but mrs. bachman should answer the question. do you believe it this crack pot, bigoted theory that there's somehow something to be repaired if you're gay? i can't even say it without laughing because it's such a crack pot theory. congresswoman bachmann apparently participates in the profits of this clinic. in fact the clinic apparently gets state and federal assistance, which is kind of interesting for an anti-government conservative. she should have to answer whether she supports that kind of bigotry. >> well, first of all gets made cade. so when paul makes that case i guess what he is saying only democrats should be able to receive medicaid funds, no republicans, which is nonsense. but secondly, i think when it comes to these very sensitive and social issues, we have to be careful before we put ourselves

in other people's shoes. i don't think it's out of the norm for somebody to say, i want to change who i am. and if they do, i told you what my answer would be. i would say, you don't need to. why should you? but if somebody wanted, to and that's what the case here was, who among us has the right to say to them, if that's what you really want, you're not eligible to have it from anybody of any way if that's what you want. i don't think any of us have metaphysical certainty about these issues. what we should have is respect. and i think you have to leave this on the side. leave it alone, especially when there are so many other issues dealing with jobs and the deficit. that's what this election is about. >> well, but then you're no longer practicing therapy. you're no longer practicing psychological counselling. you may be practicing a religion. you may be practicing some sort of prejudice. you may be practicing something. but you should not be getting medicaid funding to practice healthcare, mental healthcare in this case, if what you're doing is pursuing this crack pot

theory. >> this is christian counselling program. and paul, what you'd be saying is no counselling program of any religious nature should be able to receive federal funds. >> they should not -- >> if that's the case you want to make, that's a big different case to make. but this is a christian facility. and they take medicaid patients. not necessarily for this procedure or treatment or whatever you call it. >> there's no evidence they were using medicaid payments for reparative therapy. >> she should be asked about this theory. she's a candidate for president. one out of ten americans is gay. she should be asked if she wants to lead a country where at least 10% of us are gay or lesbian, does she believe in this crack pot, bigoted theory that somehow there's something to be repaired in our brothers and sisters and sons and daughters who happen to be born gay? >> we'll have more with paul and ari after the break. we'll talk about the debt showdown. polls numbers the president used in support of his policies. frachkly the president's numbers

simply don't add up. we'll show you that. let us know what you think. we're on facebook. follow me on twitter @ anderson cooper. later thousands of protestors in cairo's tahrir square. we'll tell you why they're happening now. are you anxious to protect your family with life insurance... but afraid you can't afford it?

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no white house meeting today on the debt crisis. just each side demanding the other side get serious. >> i'm glad that congressional leaders don't want to default. but i think the american people expect more than that. they expect that we actually try to solve this problem, we get our fiscal house in order. >> time and again republicans have offered serious proposals to cut spending and address these issues. and i think it's time for the democrats to get serious as well. >> president obama repeated his call for a so-called grand bargain on spending and revenue. speaker boehner maintained that no deal with tax increases can get through the house. he and other leading republicans claim the americans support them on this. listen. >> right now this economy is ailing. and we don't believe, nor do i think the american people believe, that raising taxes is the answer. >> the american people understand that tax hikes destroy jobs. >> i think what the american people appreciate is that you

don't reinvigorate the economy by raising taxes. >> 80% of the american people do not want to see taxes raised. >> the president's answer? let's raise taxes on job creators. mr. president, the american people don't want that. >> the american people don't want us to raise taxes. >> well, last night we showed you numbers from gallup and others demonstrator that that's not truchlt most americans will in fact support certain tax increases to lower the debt. 20% in a recent gallup poll favors spending cuts only. president obama mentioned that poll today. keeping him honest his numbers didn't quite add up. here's what he said. listen. >> you have 80% of the american people who support a balanced approach. 80% of the american people support an approach that includes revenues and includes cuts. so the notion that somehow the american people aren't sold is not the problem. >> well, in fact a large majority does support a mix, but not 80% as the president said.

here's the poll again. it does show only 20% support for spending cuts only, but add up the numbers for some kind of mix of cuts and taxes and you get 69%, not the 80% the president said. a 11 point difference. the president also said that 65% of republicans support that grand bargain he reportedly struck with speaker boehner before the speaker backed away from it. the poll doesn't ask specifically about the deal, only about a mix of tax and spending cuts. i talked with paul begala and ari fleischer. >> paul, both sides are trying to get in front of this. at this point does it look like the white house is making a dent in this battle? from your perspective how do you see it? >> certainly from the polling -- and i'm sorry to be so political but i'm a political hack. that's why i'm on. the president, there's a quinnipiac poll that says the president has a 14 point advantage right now over the republicans on this. i think it's impressive. because he's shown the most political courage. he has put medicare cuts on the table. 78% of americans oppose cuts in

medicare. but he's put that on the table. he's apparently put social security on the table. the republicans won't even put low-hanging fruit like tax breaks for oil companies and for corporate jets on the table. so i think the american people are being fair. they're saying, look, if we have to take these cuts in programs we believe in, we should also ask wealthy americans to pay a little bit more, too. that's where the president is. i think he's definitely on the right side of this. >> ari, in terms of how both sides have been playing this, how do you assess it? >> well, number one, if president obama has put medicare and social security on the table he's covered them with a table cloth. because nobody can see what he's talking about. and you notice at his news conference today he ducked a question about whether he'd be willing to raise the retirement age. so so far it's all fluff and rhetoric from the president and no specifics. in terms of how it's playing, the one big polling piece that we got this week was the president is now down by eight points in a generic poll to republican presidential nominee, whoever it would be. that's a huge gap for the president and a step in the

wrong direction. so this frankly is the ultimate pox on all your houses issues. the public is very frustrated with everybody in washington who cannot come to an agreement on this. that's what ultimately is going to drive the end game here. an agreement has to be reached. it's just not american for us to not be able to pay our bills. that's what we expect as families and what we should expect the government to do. my bet is at the end they're going to pass some type of medium-term, 500 billion or so, six-month fix, all tied to spending cuts. and barack obama has no choice but to sign that. >> paul, you agree with that, some sort of medium fix? >> i suppose that may be where it's going. i tend to be more pessimistic about this. you never go broke betting that republicans will be irresponsible and reckless. one democratic senator e-mailed me a couple days ago with a quote from lincoln's historic speech at cooper union in 1860 where he said he didn't like politicians whose strategy was in lincoln's word, rule or ruin. either they'll rule the country or they'll ruin the country. and that seems to be the

republican strategy. either let us rule entirely, no compromise, or we will ruin the country by pushing us off this cliff on default, which is really -- i mean, for the party of lincoln to be practicing the politics of rule or ruin is really pretty tragic. >> anderson, what you have to remember, this is what the american people spoke out for in 2010. this is what elected such a tsunami of republicans to office. people were fed up with deficits, fed up with debt, fed up with spending, fed up with healthcare reform. they wanted america to move a different direction from barack obama. that's what's now being tested. >> we got to leave it there. ari, thanks very much. paul begala as well. ahead tonight, former fugitive, reputed mobster whitey bulger why his reputation on the street made the toughest tough guys tremble. haunting videotapes made by the couple who kidnaped jaycee dugard, held her captive for 18 years. these videos show them stalking children on playgrounds, both at

the same time. they even videotaped parole officer whose visited their home and failed over and over again to find jaycee dugard. every parent should see these tapes. we'll be right back. any questions? no. you know...

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deadly violence in syria again today as anti-government demonstrators clashed with soldiers after friday prayers. activists say at least 21 civilians were killed along with one soldier. cnn is not able to independently verify this. video shows demonstrations in cities and towns across the

country. syrian state tv once again blamed the violence on what it called arms ground and said soldiers were protecting people from those groups. the situation in egypt has received much less attention. h from power. thousands turned out in tahrir square joining several camped out there since last week. they're vowing to stay there until their demands are taken by the council running the country. they want deep changes, deep economic and social reforms, speedy trials for my botheric and members of his form regime and severe punishment for police officers who killed protesters during the uprisings in january a february. this week the government tried to appease the protesters by firing nearly 600 police officials. but are there limits to the tolerance of the ruling council? we've seen that in the last few

waeks that's allowing the protest but said it won't permit disturbance to the public order. i spoke with a teacher at stanford's university and a protestor. >> khalid,what do the protestors want at this point? >> the fact is we're in an ongoing struggle. that's something that's been very clear since mubarek left power. we've seen multiple attempts by the protestors to get what they want, and we've seen multiple attempts by the army, specifically, to push them back. and the protestors want to build their country. and they're fed up with -- they're fed up with the speed of change. they're fed up with the army, which has tortured people, which has put people on military trial, which has threatened the press, which has threatened freedoms. and what we've seen here starting last week on the 8th of july is the first absolutely clear consensus that the way

things seem to be going, the way that the army seems to be leading things, is something that they don't accept. and so what we've got going on right now is a very clear message being sent to the army, things have to change. and i would say what characterizes this sit in as opposed to where we were at the beginning is this is actually a much more difficult sit. in at the beginning it was easier. at the beginning was we need to break something with the past. this is very much about making very clear what the future is we want to build. >> you're saying it's more difficult now. but i mean back then people were being killed in the streets by pro mubarek forces. you still say this is more difficult just because it's more complex? what you're trying to achieve? >> yeah. what i mean to say is politically it's a lot more complicated. you can unify a large number of people over the fact that you want to get rid of a dictator. unifying them over what and how you want to build your country

is much more difficult. because building is much more difficult than breaking with the past. but that's not to say, of course, i mean of course the difficulty of what we had in the first sit in was the violence which was incredibly clear. but i mean, since then we've had -- as i say we've had violence, we've had torture, we've had people killed at the hand of the army, we've been threatened. so now it's about learning how -- finding out how to build the country that we want. >> faroud, you have always been very optimistic about the so-called arab spring. are you disappointed by the rate of progress, by the pace of progress in egypt since mubarek was toppled? >> absolutely not, anderson. i think in fact if we take a look at what has been happening in egypt, it's remarkable. we have to remember that even though this egyptian revolt that you witnessed first hand was largely peaceful, 850 egyptians were killed at the hand of the security forces. not the army. that's a very important

distinction. so the families of those 850 want justice. and it's in the nature of revolutions that they always want to go back to their moment and their place of innocence. and the place and the moment of innocence were these magical 18 days in liberation square where the egyptians claimed their history and drove pharoah out of power. and now there's an account, if you will, between the army which backed the people and didn't kill them as a civilian army is killing its own people, and the population which wants speedier change, faster change. one protestor says he wanted freedom, social justice, and bread. now, these are very, very big demands. and i think that's what we're really looking at in egypt today. >> khalid, the elections have now been pushed back in egypt. they were supposed to be in september. now they've been pushed back to october-november. they were already had been scheduled earlier than many people had wanted, other than

the moslem brotherhood, other groups that wanted to be able to establish themselves. do you think it's a good thing that elections have been pushed back? >> i mean, the elections will come when they will come. and i think when we're talking about the pace of change, i think the pace of change will be -- i mean, it will be what it will be. i mean, at the end of the day, one month, two months doesn't really make that big a difference. the issue is really the lack of transparentity that we've had by the military who are essentially ruling the country. the fact that we don't know when we have our elections, there are all sorts of elements about how those elections are held that have not been made clear to us. i think those are the issues that are extremely worrying about these upcoming elections. >> and faoud,what about the role of the moslem brotherhood? there were some fractures in the organization. the youth part of it i think broke off, created their own organization. are they the biggest power now besides the military in egypt? >> well, i think that of course

they're a big power. and if you watch what happened with the moslem brotherhood, they stayed out of these protests of friday. they basically said, we won't participate. we want to give the government time. so they're trying to sound reasonable, trying to sound responsible. but the problem for the protestors right now is that there is a prime minister in place who was brought to power by the protesters. and now the protesters want him to do all kinds of things very, very quickly, very rapidly. it's not easy getting rid of the heritage of authoritarianism. >> and khalid, i remember talking to you in those heady days when you were sleeping in tahrir square for days at a time. are you still that optimistic? are you still that excited? >> oh, absolutely. i mean, what happened here at the beginning of the revolution has changed how people view their future, has changed how people view their country. and what we're seeing, and what you're seeing behind me, is the fact that they will not rest until they achieve what they

want to achieve. >> i appreciate both of you coming out. >> thank you. still ahead tonight, crime and punishment. haunting videotapes just released by prosecutors revealing new details by the monsters charged with and convicted of holding jaycee dugard captive for 18 years. also, casey anthony just hours away from freedom. she'll be released from a florida jail sunday. she won her case, so why are her attorneys now appealing the verdict? we'll explain ahead. candy? um-- well, you know, you're in luck. we're experts in this sort of thing, mortgage rigamarole, whatnot. r-really? absolutely, and we guarantee results, you know, for a small fee, of course. such are the benefits of having a professional on your side. [whistles, chuckles] why don't we get a contract? who wants a contract? [honks horn] [circus music plays] here you go, pete. thanks, betty. we're out of toner. [circus music plays]

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crime and punishment tonight, this week we heard for the first time jaycee dugard describe her own 18 year captivity by phillip and nancy

garrido. haunting videotapes released by prosecutors showing how the garridos stalked children in playground, nancy pretending to film her husband singing while focusing on kids in the background. also caught on tape, a visit from law enforcement, dozens of examples of parole officers missing an opportunity to find jaycee. >> those two girls are going to come out of that sliding door. >> on what side of me? >> on your left. >> the videos are unsteady and sometimes out of focus. but the intent is clear. >> see them? >> yes. do you think anybody can see me? >> no. >> when you make it look like you're pointing at me you need it move more in front of me. >> the videos show convicted sex offender phillip garrido and his wife nancy apparently on the prowl in parking lots and in playgrounds surrounded by children. >> got me real good? >> yes. i can see you really good. >> their team strategy caught on camera gives an erie glimpse on how the duo worked together to

on serve children and ultimately kidnap 11-year-old jaycee dugard as she walked to the bus stop near her lake tahoe home on june 10, 1991 in an interview with abc's diane sawyer, dugard recounts garrido's giddiness over her capture. >> did they say anything? did you hear anything? >> no, not at first. after we were driving for awhile i heard the driver say "i can't believe we got away with it" and he started laughing. i think i blacked out again or something. it was like the most horrible moment of your lifetimes ten. >> that horrible moment continued for the next 18 years. held captive in the garrido's backyard, dugard was repeatedly raped and gave birth to two children. all the while, phillip garrido was on federal and state patrol. . why is this door blocked? this door right here? >> that's where we sleep. >> want to turn the light on? >> sure. >> in another video which was

taped by nancy garrido, a state patrol officer searches the home. >> what does a parole agent do for his parolee? >> if you stay in this front room and i don't have to place you in restraints, because right now i'm searching the house. >> the search of the home appears to be brief and the officer never goes into the backyard where he could have discovered dugard some 30 feet away. >> i don't believe it, either. >> i don't understand. i'm doing everything i'm supposed to do. >> i know it zpchlt. >> you're on parole. >> parole officers visited garrido 60 times at his home. 60 times. not once did they notice what was happening in the backyard. in her interview with abc, dugard recounts the one time she came face-to-face with a parole officer but was too afraid to tell him the truth. >> i actually talked to one of the agents. and the agent proceeded to give phillip his urine test and left. this made me feel like he didn't really care. >> luckily, jaycee dugard was finally discovered in august

2009, 19 years after being abducted. the garridos convicted of kidnapping and rape are now in prison for life. from the videos it's clear law officials failed to do their job. that's the main reason they say the videos were released by the district attorney's office with dugard's consent in the "hopes of improving the supervision and detection of sexual predators". so creepy. earlier i talked about the tapes and what can be learned from them with dr. drew pinsky and sunny hostin a form federal prosecutor. >> dr. drew, i watched these tapes multiple times today. they are just so disturbing. and the degree to which this guy's wife was aiding and abetting him and was part of this, it boggles the mind. >> it boggles the mind now knowing what we know about this guy and the depravity to which he has sunk. the fact is, the reason this guy chose this woman is because of her profound dependency needs. and he on some level,

psychologically, intuitively or otherwise, knew that he could get her to cooperate with really anything he wanted to do. his games of mind control are intense, and he found a willing victim here in this woman who needed to be loved by him more than anything else in her life. >> sunny, this is a registered sex offender videotaping kids in a playground. it's a parent's worst nightmare. is there anything one can do to protect kids at a playground like this? >> well, no. i mean, in a public playground certainly people can take pictures. there have been states that have tried to pass laws to prevent that. and those efforts have failed. but i will say. this i think the problem here was in the federal supervision and the state supervision. he was a registered sex offender. and if people do their jobs and parole agents do their jobs, probation agents do their jobs, when they go and they search people's homes, these sex offender homes, they find evidence like this. they find the videotapes.

they find the child pornography. they find the photographs. and so i think in this case the system really, really failed. and that's really the tragedy here. >> and for parents watching tonight, dr. drew, who might be worried some pedophile could be lurking around their kid's playgrounds. i guess you would look for somebody with a video camera. >> welk it's not as simple as that. it's even frankly -- i don't want to make people paranoid, but assume -- assume the worst. i mean, if these stories lately have not taught is anything, it is that depravity exists in our world, and sometimes it comes out of nowhere. there's not as though they wear a sign or a sandwich board that lets you know. there's nothing absolutely characteristic about them physically or their behavior, that you need to have eyes on kids at all times. and we just live in a world where these things exist, and they're much more common than we'd like to admit. we've been through a period of of maybe 20 or 30 years where people debated how pervasive these problems are. now it's apparent. now it's obvious.

it exists and we have to be vigilant. >> also just the amount of thought that went into buying this video camera. he's talking to his wife about the video camera and sort of instructing her how to use it. his whole plan of sitting there singing while she's seek letly videotaping what's happening around him. i just find this videotape so, so disturbing. >> anderson, it's spooky and it's disgusting. and again you've got to remember something. this is just not the average perpetrator. this is not somebody who -- one message i have to people that have these sorts of impulses is please get help before you hurt yourself or somebody else. there are things that can be done. but this is more than that. this is depravity. this is a depraved person. >> the fact that there is video, where you actually see the parole officer in the house and with the knowledge of what was happening in the very backyard, it's just -- it's stunning to actually see zblit it really is stunning. and what i thought was really fascinating is that it was nancy

garrido that was taking the video. and she was very combative with the parole agent. he got out of there very quickly. and he never went into the backyard. so this is i think going to be a tool for prosecutors and for investigators and parole agents and probation officers to really look at and figure out how these predators work. all the possibilities that they need to look into when supervising these sexual predators. >> the sex offenders i've interviewed are really the most ma nip la tiff people i've ever met. some of them were grooming children and families to try to molest them. some of them were people who had grabbed kids. >> it's not a passing fan sichlt it's not a hobby. it is a profound, intense drive and attractions. and in those situations where you can treat, it takes a lot of work and really on a daily basis. in those situations where again as i've said now several times where it's actually becomes depraved it is our legal system that must step in and protect

our children. >> dr. drew appreciate it. sunny hostin as well a new look at james whitey bulger gangster turned fugitive. we'll hear from a former drug runner who says bulger used to make even the toughest guys shake. but i did. they said i couldn't get elected to congress. but i did. ♪ sometimes when we touch ha ha! millions of hits! [ male announcer ] flick, stack, and move between active apps seamlessly. only on the new hp touchpad with webos.

tonight a look at what james whitey bulger was really like doctors his alleged reign as one of chicago's biggest mobsters. back in the day he was known as the guy who controlled everything in south boston. we spoke with a former drug runner when knew him. >> i met whitey when i was between the ages of 15 and 16.

>> john shay, nicknamed red, grew up in the tight-knit world of south above the up's old colony housing projects. shay, a golden glove boxer with a wild streak, wanted to be just like reputed crime boss whitey bulger and the irish gangsters who ran southy. >> over there is our colony projects. over here is the harbor projects where whitey grew up. and santa monica church. next to santa monica church around the rotary is the liquor store and the video store where was his base of operations. the guy was legendary. >> shay says bulger was the undisputed king of southy. >> he wanted to be as strong and as powerful and as rich as he could be. >> whitey was the toughest of them all. >> are you kidding? he made tough guys shake. he made them shake! >> raised by a single mom, shay looked up to bulger as a father figure and mentor. shay's boxing skills came in handy. he says he worked for bulger first as an enforcer, shaking

down debtors. then in a bizarre initiation, bulger took shay to a basement and pulled a gun. >> it was called a test. and that's when i had become the boss after that. >> and that put you in charge of the drugs? >> that put me in charge of the drugs. >> in 1990, shea was convicted of cocaine trafficking. he served 12 years, refusing to cooperate in exchange for a shorter sentence. >> they wanted whitey through me. and i wouldn't give him up. they could have threatened me with the electric chair and i wouldn't have gave him up. ever. >> because in southy, it was okay to be a criminal but not a rat. and when shea in prison found out bulger was a fbi informant? >> it was almost like someone reached through the phone line down my throat and tore my heart out. so that's what it is for me. because i honored the code. >> and they played you. >> and they played me. because whitey knew.

>> as bulger went on the run, his betrayal out in the open, his 20 yooe reign as boston's most notorious mob boss came to an end. >> i would have died for that guy. i would have died for him. >> with two books to his credit, shea says he's taken responsibility for his early life and is now a changed man. as for the former king of southy? shea believes he's still calling the shots. >> he is playing them. is he giving them information? is he talking to them? you guarantee he is. he started the minute they captured him. but psychologically, he's playing them. guaranteed. >> debra thayrick, cnn, boston. coming up how this week's cnn hero turned her own backyard garden to be seeds of hope for thousands of families next. [ man ] this is my robot butler.

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and we got onesies! sometimes miracles get messy. so we use tide free. no perfumes or dyes for her delicate skin. brad. not it. not it. just kidding. that's our tide. what's yours? i grew up wearing lots of hand-me-downs. bell bottoms in the '80s? not pretty. then she found them. she loved them, so i washed them in tide with downy and they're still soft and fresh. right? i'm blogging. really. i'm talking. that's my tide. what's yours? i'm talking. got the mirrors all adjusted? you can see everything ok? just stay off the freeways, all right? i don't want you going out on those yet. and leave your phone in your purse, i don't want you texting. >> daddy... ok! ok, here you go. be careful. >> thanks dad. >> and call me--but not while you're driving. we knew this day was coming. that's why we bought a subaru.

tonight's cnn hero is a woman family got hit hard by the recession. she decided to feed her family she'd have to count on her own backyard, her garden. now she's helping families do the same. here's her story. >> i love the united states. i think it's a wonderful place to live. it's scary to me that with so much land, with so much abundance people are hungry. in 2008 my husband lost his job. it was a very, very difficult difficult time. and the first thing we did was plant a garden.

if you grow your own food you never have to worry about how you're going to feed your family. we thought if we could help others garden, then we could help them pull themselves up out of poverty. i'm holly hirshberg. we fight hunger in the united states by teaching people it grow their own food. we pack enough seeds to feed a family of four. we want to help people provide for themselves. >> this is an egg plant. i've already harvested from it. >> my garden is in front of my apartment. i can grow tomatoes, bell pepper, in just flower pots. if it wasn't for my garden then i wouldn't be able to afford fresh produce at all. >> here we have a tomatillo plant. all from seeds from the dinner garden. we have provided over 65,000 seed packs to individuals and families all over the country. we have provided seeds for over 180 community gardens. >> so who wants to grow vegetables? >> we see a lot of families whose children only eat when they get a free meal at school. when they're at home,